After a long season of fasting and prayer, in 2003 we were given the Elgin Campus. Jenkins himself was brought on as an elder at Harvestwhy was he chosen? I know we have to hunt to keep down the population of wild creatures, especially in areas where they dont have any natural predators, so they dont destroy the environment and/or starve. I am interested in seeing what TWW readers will pull out if Jenkins letter. Dallas, maybe you should read the red letter Bible the T. Jefferson compiled from the King James Version? But one way or the other, my instincts about Hall dont alter my opinion that Dee likely has good reasons to not want to use this forum to air a familys personal tragedy any more. Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. The whole cycle, from start to implosion and disbanding the church, was about five years. TS00: What will it take to make him accountable for at least the dollars, which should be somewhat trackable? fear of the evil, scary worldly world. Dallas Jenkins, Executive Director, Vertical Church Media at Harvest Bible Chapel, and son of Jerry Jenkins of Left Behind fame, tells stories for a living and shares insider info about producing and directing films at Harvest in this session of the Pro Church Podcast. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. Rescuing those who have ears to hear is the best any of us can do. WHERE TO . Unless, trying very hard to see it from the inside' their vision of God, whom they reckon they were imitating, is more arbitrary, capricious, violent and domineering than mine. Their churches were of human origin, they failed. Ken F (aka Tweed): Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. I am not Eastern Orthodox but I have been looking into it. Sadly, many of us have learned our lesson the hard way, but it is not he who established these institutions and herded his people into them. This disturbing senior pastor made fun of other HBC church leaders for their physical attributes that he deemed not up to snuff with his obvious sartorial sense and unsurpassed personal good looks. If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. Now, four of Harvest Bible Chapels campuses have Hope Centers to provide food and other resources to families in across Chicagoland to provide help and hope found only in Jesus. The movie is being produced by Vertical Church Films, a new film-making branch of the Elgin-based megachurch Harvest Bible Chapel, with its estimated $2 million budget underwritten by the. This statement just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the twelve about. The Niles Campus became our third location in 2004. You have also put a few of the people fighting for the cause of God change through the ringer with some of your comments to them on twitter fb. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. I appreciate both of you being so vulnerable. Law Prof: needs to go read the Bible I just think some people do not care one tiny little bit about what the Lord said. God has shown great favor and grace to Harvest Bible Chapel, allowing us to plant churches, host in thriving mens, womens events, and student gatherings, and creating ministries centering around outreach in our communities. elastigirl: perhaps the other side of this coin can be the joy and happiness of discovering the magnificence of fellow human beings outside the context of christian culture. How many disasters do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions? You have been on the pulse, on target, and on the money with each and every post I have read on Twitter and now on TWW. john, i truly suspect that the only difference between my friends & family i described above and the grace-filled believer you describe is window dressing: vocabulary used when speaking, a smiley face, a tone of voice, body language. The NT clearly outlines the positive attributes I am talking about.. Having re-read the letter a few times now I find it to be more of a CYA document than anything else. It is not elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom. At Harvest Kids, we love teaching Gods Word. You and the other TWW regulars feel like family. They are set in place as the shepherds of Gods people, and thus are the care takers of the spiritual needs of the church. Begin your journey with the prayer. A lot to think about these days! I LOVED what I believed that Harvest Bible Chapel wasa vibrant church that existed to bring glory to Jesus Christ. It is unwise, and unsafe to loyally declare, But I know and love so and so. Sadly, clever manipulators can deceive very well. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? You are the guy wearing the black hat. This is not a widely understood concept, nor do many consider it at all. As Jenkins mentions in the above Instagram post, the cast and crew are on their second day of filming the Bible's 'Feeding of the Five Thousand' story (F5K). Just them asking me to become an elder told me something was wrong. Lets face it, in this era one can access whatever superior teaching is preferred in the comfort of their home or car. Notice that Fred brags about Negotiating more than $100 million in church mortgage financing. While the vast majority of pastors and churches can be trusted, disciples who have experienced a betrayal of trust have become sobered by the thought of joining another church. Every weekend were gathering to open the Bible together, growing in Gods ways through community and going out to bring God glory through His Son, Jesus Christ. For example, no one would say that those who spoke out about Bill Hybels harassing women were wrongly airing a personal grievance.. Narcissistic business CEOs mistreat their subordinates and the nastiness flows downhill within the enterprise. These qualifications must be met if one is to be a pastor for the flock of God. I certainly have my doubts that Paul would be rejoicing over the likes of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and countless others who have taken advantage of the Body of Christ over the last 2,000 years. Theres a difference between people who hunt professionally for a living, indigenous hunters who hunt as part of their tribal culture, and rich guys like James McDonald who do it to knock another item off their bucket list. I know some people will disagree with me, but thats just my opinion. Jesus held onto me and he will hold onto you. View All Webcasts TV Broadcasts Devotion Greg's Blog Virtue Radio Greg Laurie Podcast Harvest Events Ebooks Matt Chandler (born June 20, 1974) is the lead pastor of teaching at the Village Church, a Southern Baptist church in Flower Mound, Texas, and the President of the Acts 29 Network. FOR DALLAS JENKINS, telling stories comes naturally. Truth the WHOLE truth is the only antidote. His entire enterprise is being exposed as a fraud and a ripoff of the naive, yet he faces no repercussions inflicting so much spiritual, emotional and financial abuse. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. These charlatans cannot be allowed to get away with this. This often brings to my mind the movie Bridge Over the River Kwai. Hall, Ive been consistent here and elsewhere under another net handle and under my actual name that I dont think the guys up to any good at all, either years ago or now. Those who are truly qualified (I think) know they are so in need of Gods favor to consistently live that out and are only barely qualified by what God has already done in them to that point. So this ole guy is here until the Lord moves me along or my comments stop making sense (please tell me if they do). I presume this is because he has a much bigger platform, but if that is not the reason, I am open to hear. The place is not worth saving. That ship has sailed, and size is no guarantee greed and corruption will not take over even the smallest group or home church. Making vague accusations like that is true slander. Why you gotta be so mean? Taylor Swift. It is a position of authority and responsibility. Backfired twice over. ME GREAT WHITE HUNTER! Apparently DJ knew these things and witnessed these things, but did nothing about these things. By creating offices and appointing people to them, we actually kind of circumvent that innate wisdom, we say this here guy has the title, hes the one, even if hes actually all facade and no substance. Dallas has at long last come out, along with a long list of other former top Harvest leadrs. ChurchOne App . ), Law Prof: If we just got back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed . This is indeed the plan of Satan, IMO, but when you try to suggest such a thing you are usually scoffed at as a conspiracy theorist. ++++++++++++++++++++. More Campus News . We do use the facility a lot during the week and make it available for local schools to use. Lured by the hope of sitting someday at the right hand of The Man JMac, not Jesus. I wish it wasnt so. I agree that there is hierarchy in the churches from very early. And all youre ever going to be is mean Jmac is an uncare bear, so is Dallas Jenkins for that matter. If church leaders throughout Christendom wont take a stand to expose wayward peers and rebuke their ministry endeavors, it will be up to the pew to do this important task to inform and warn others in the Body of Christ to beware. Do like King David did (by writing Psalm 51 and signing his name for eternity) sign your name to your failure then go find some hurting people from Harvest and minister to them. There are other places for the truly repentant to serve in the church. Like the right procedures would have saved them the embarrassment. I suspect that all of this is true, and more. I understand your point and the historical information. Since then, the output of Christ-adoring songs from various worship team members has continued to accelerate. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. Recreated vertical version of "Hallelujah" sang by Heather Headley reflecting on the sacrifice of our savior. Im sure it depends on the setting and the ministry of the church. Credibility has been diminished. Do you mean it was given to those elders who assisted in helping JMac continue on with his antics? Ive got to process that letter. This is how all men will know that you are my disciples, because you have such love for one another.. He was a cynical grandstands and shameless self-promoter. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. . This is why he has amassed good wealth. Why in the world hed take this approach and evidently consider it courageous or fitting is completely beyond me. makes me think of being in a warm shower or warm bath, you just dont want to get out. Not exactly the mild and loving spirit of Jesus. Samuel Conner: Be imitators of God, as dearly loved children, and live a life of love, even as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us. Then in great heresy he says Mormons have the same Jesus as evangelicals! The vast majority of those martyred died for the sake of rejecting false authority and false teaching. Quit trying to privatize and hide in secret that which should be public. The Evangelical Bubble proclaimed it a Witnessing Tool (as if that was the only reason for anything) and then bought out so many showings a lot of the theaters had to discontinue group tickets. In a godly biblical hierarchy, what would flow downhill would be love and care. This has been going on now for 12 years. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. you mention they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff?. ++++++++++++++++++++++++. Does anyone here think Dallas wouldnt have delighted in pointing out a series of lies being told about Harvest leaders and defending himself? Releasing a letter to a select few was a half measure response. not self-willed You cant express truth sufficiently in religious teachings and traditions; it can only be found in a relationship with Christ. You need to stop being like JMac and actually follow Jesus once and come out into the light. We swore our allegiance to him. I will admit I now find it kind of shocking that a guy who never knew Jesus in life could muscle his way in and call himself an apostle among the other apostles. Scary to think that unfaithful leaders can so easily jump from one pond to another. But first you must go before your brother in This, along with the embracing of the whole seeker-friendly, mega-church model caused us to leave the church and people we loved, difficult as it was to explain. Yeah, thats it self-esteem. If a familys personal pain about a very private matter doesnt fit that category, I dont know what would. Everyone who is of the Truth, who is a friend of the Truth and belongs to the Truth, hears and listens carefully to My voice. (Jesus, John 18:37). In 2021, Camp Harvest was sold to a ministry to continue the maintenance and ongoing work of ministry to young people, youth ministry, and camp events. TS00: because sometimes I feel pretty alone in this wilderness. of course lightning bolt messages from God come about as often as seas parting. The one time we visited Spain and France and visited (maybe 4 or 5) churches from about 1200 CE up to Notre Dame in Paris, there were (especially in Spain) tons of silver and gold used on private family altars scattered all around the floor of the more recent cathedrals, to the point that there wasnt really room for many actual worshippers. Zero current power holders at Willow Creek Community Church have uttered a single word condemning the sexual crimes of founder and 42 year leader Bill Hybels. What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. Maybe that was why Elmer Gantry had such impact. And who on this blog doesnt love questions to be answered and truth to be revealed. If Dees afraid of Hall, she sure hasnt done a very good job of living it out. (just like Adam hearkening to his wife in the garden huh?) And now hes trying to explain to all of us how the 2000 people that left and who were shunned by the Harvesr machine that we somehow need to let the Lord work to save Harvest? Harvest Bible Chapel (HBC) has long been under scrutiny for its finances, questionable transparency, large debts due to its acquisitions of many campuses in the Chicago area, and possible mismanagement. Held himself out as a model. I dont feel the joy that my faith used to give. elastigirl: why does it matter what Paul thinks? You participated in making what is now a public mockery (an absurd misrepresentation) of the holy the gospel of Jesus Christ. My current frustration, as someone who wants to get it right, is not knowing how to get it right in light of all the historical evidence. In 2001, the Crystal Lake Campus began as the second Harvest church plant then transitioned to a campus, officially launching on September 1, 2007. Once you step out of that or can no longer take part, the machine moves on without you. Runnin bear dove in the water, little white dove did the same where leaders humbly look around for those whom they can help, trying to be the last, not the first, putting their reputations, careers, and lives on the line if necessary All this is coming out that millions of dollars potentially has been mishandled, he said. and when he first committed to downsizing, I told him not to do it, that he didnt need to.. The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. Movies Popular Now Playing Upcoming Top Rated TV Shows Popular Airing Today On TV Top Rated People As Paul cautioned the church at large to beware of Alexander, he has done us much harm, so the watchblogs speak to inform and warn other believers to be wary of certain leaders. Now this is a dichotomy because we are speaking about faith because we cannot know all facts of God, but what is done on this earth is grounded in facts and with witnesses. Our staff and volunteer leaders cant wait to welcome your kids to our safe, secure, age-appropriate program. He promised never to leave me, ++++++++++++++++. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. More leaders must take a stand and shine the light of truth. The key is to have a system where checks and balances are in place. A friend became nearly apoplectic when I tried to explain this. Ken F (aka Tweed): I think the issue of the type of leadership structure is much less important than the character of the people running the show. I realize people are suffering from pain and confusion, but now is not the time to be silent. Accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the leader God always intended you to be. Gut tells me hes just another narcissist, and this latest incarnation is another game. Many parents contacted the school about it, and it was one of the first of many, many issues that arose there. Born in Dallas and growing up in Little Rock, . Spot on with your comment. It is the internal nagging I have following Dees post on Friday about JD Hall and Braxton Caner. Well, Amy, youve provided us a rather disgusting look at the character of these characters! a human-designated term. No more circumcision. You shouldve released your statement the first time around. In March of 2000, Harvest Bible Chapel adopted the mission to establish Gospel-believing, Bible-teaching churches. I pray that God will continue to use you to shine a spotlight on wicked works of darkness in Christendom today. In case this has escaped your awareness, most folks on TWW have experienced abuse in churches. Ishy: These churches treat women so badly, but promise men all sorts of things, Matt Chandler says I preach to men. He calls female believers at TVC our girls while hes ensnares them with the beauty of complementarity., NJ: In September of 2012, we experienced another provision of God, in the form of the Scottish Rite Cathedrala historical landmark we reclaimed for the gospel in the heart of Chicagos Gold Coastwhich became the Chicago Cathedral Campus. New TWW post. these are their personal standards. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? of good testimony with those who are outside (non-Christian) It becomes a social club or a corporation or a cult or whatever. But not genuine relationships. You think youre justified at all in bristling in obvious irritation that your letter, which is apparently the rest of the story truth about this very public figure, got out of your control and hit the public sphere? This all happens when we gather, grow and go together as followers of Jesus. 4107 N Steele Blvd. To new commenters I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. The Apostles warned us this would happen and to be on guard, but we havent done much about it. not quick-tempered Debby: Check out the Stronger Mens Conference Ive tried to leave TWW twice to go fishing or something, but my fans urged me to stay. I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. Here are some of my running thoughts of the statement. There is also this interesting statement by Ignatuius (martyred in 108 AD): LET EVERYONE REVERE THE DEACONS AS JESUS CHRIST, THE BISHOP AS THE IMAGE OF THE FATHER, AND THE PRESBYTERS AS THE SENATE OF GOD AND THE ASSEMBLY OF THE APOSTLES. Guys like you have no fear of God, and this is how this mess happened in the first place. Bridget: Im, however, convinced that the original disciples didnt completely understand what Jesus intended, nor were they able to carry out His intentions without sin in the mixture. Ishy: Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Example: I use my actual name on Twitter. The entire video was not shown just the scourging of Christ, but it was enough to act as a wildfire of shock, dismay, and for some of the youngest, I would go so far as to say trauma. He intended this confession to go to elders onlyand is angry that it got into the hands of those not in that rarified air. It is difficult to not imagine that the overly generous salaries passed out at Harvest have a lot to do with the leaders who refuse to call for the opening of the books. in Springfield MO in late April Driscoll Will be sharing his wisdom as a highlighted speaker. Instead, the cowriters hope that the show will encourage viewers to read the gospels with renewed passion. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Driscolls board is down to him as President and director, Jimmy Evans and Randall Taylor (who I believe is an attorney). 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Fred Adams former Harvest CFO has a serious gambling addiction. In church context, it may even be worse than the secular business context because in addition to the objective institutional power wielded by the narcissist CEO, there is the presumption of divine authority which legitimates the misuse of power. Both Steve Carter and Jenkins waited for public outcry and then expressed their moral outrage. If the elders arent spiritual men, consider another church. Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. Iowa Steve: Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? ex HCA Staff: Law Prof: He was evidently so invested in making the Dramatic Point and leaving a Big Impression that I dont think he considered anyone else at that moment. He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. He produced the independent feature "Hometown Legend" at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. None of the Synoptic gospels have that same setup. Wow. Why is the main blogger and moderator so quick to shut down comments. The damage lingers. After seven years, the growing congregation of 500 raised funds in six weeks to secure a former warehouse at 800 S Rohlwing Road in Rolling Meadows. But if these offices are wrong it means the wheels fell of of the Church extremely early in its history. We were hissing at them Close you eyes! and doing our best to throw ourselves in front of the smallest ones. You need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and a good guy and admit that you are the neo-Pharisee that you really are. Can you really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on Pastors & elders wrong? For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Revamping the financial transparency laws for 501-c3 religious entities would be a good start. Plus there are several tombs of El Cid, the lost hero who saved Spain from the Muslim rulers in different cathedrals. My Comment was Deleted Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. Was it released or leaked? No announcement, no warning, just Have something I want you to see. Then suddenly Boom, there it was on the screen. Care. Because of pain. In celebration, we hosted Summer Revival at our Elgin campus. Agreed; I cant imagine that Paul would be pleased with what is happening. But nowadays I find myself wondering what that even means. but also why it doesnt seem to happen in the institution. But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior; my God will hear me. Micah 7:5-7, It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes. Psalm 118:9, Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man Jeremiah 17:5. i think we could analyze this for days, weeks, months. Church, this is good advice for all of us! Harvest Bible Church is a non-denominational, non-charismatic, evangelical Protestant church located in Northwest Houston in the Cypress community. Its nice to have a multimillionaire dad. Greg Laurie Feb 27, 2023 Harvest Online Worship Resources Our online church worship resources are designed to help you know God deeper and engage with His word on a whole new level. For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. Samuel Conner: I read an article yesterday about small mainstream churches driven to the wall by the migration to the megas being forced to lease their vacant during the week facilities to small businesses in order to generate enough income to keep the doors open. Their influence will spread exponentially once decentralized. I just know that if one of the callers in my English Country Dance or Contra Dance communities was screaming at people or even talking in a consistently rude way, that would not stand for a day, let alone years. Look to your own flocks people of HBC. I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. And before any more electrons needlessly perish, an argument about the validity of the pastoral office vs elders is probably not the real issue in the HBC case. ex HCA Staff: Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain. Trust in Jesus and his completed work is what makes one a child of God. I was then presented with opportunity to post another letter that gives insight without including insulting and painful observations about others. Face it, Dallas, HBCs elders messed up BIG TIME by not reining in James a long time ago. Consistent with your recreational activities, you took a gamble and lost. Many needy men get their egos stroked, while the women see through the charade. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). Once fear grasps and security is sought, the ability and desire to do the right thing and think critically becomes nearly impossible when it means you too could be hurt or humbled. And you dare to point your finger at TWW participants, and courageous Dee? So there is that. Too much I and not enough we in there. Through prayer and provision, a permanent location for our North Shore Campuswas found in Highland Park, in September of 2015. GreekEpigraph: Thats why Im asking LLS (and Ken/Tweed, if he wants) how do these worship men, not God structures ever have any mechanisms at all to keep from going wildly off the rails? But some dopes might not think they were so funny, eh?. He is faithful, gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best. This says you are not comfortable with God being in control, or believe he has the power to work in these earthly maters. , gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best the... Such love for one another mortgage financing was why Elmer Gantry had such impact cycle, from start implosion! Awareness, most folks on TWW have experienced abuse in churches been going on now 12! Our safe, secure, age-appropriate program leaders cant wait to welcome Kids. 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